Spellcasting in combat

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Zorakzor
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Spellcasting in combat

Post by Zorakzor » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:56 am

Hi all,

I have a question: in the case I am a wizard and are attacked by a goblin and my intentions are to finish him by magic... do we roll skill for combat and I roll for spellcasting in the same round? I mean I can act twice per round, once with my sword and once with my spells?

Maybe it's a silly question, but I cannot find it in the AFF2 rulebook

Thanks in advance

Ruffnut
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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by Ruffnut » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:51 am

I remember a spell saying something that might help
He just sits there tapping away all day on a tiny screen. But he tells everyone that he is slaying Orcs.

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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by shintokamikaze » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:33 pm

Zorakzor wrote:Hi all,

I have a question: in the case I am a wizard and are attacked by a goblin and my intentions are to finish him by magic... do we roll skill for combat and I roll for spellcasting in the same round? I mean I can act twice per round, once with my sword and once with my spells?

Maybe it's a silly question, but I cannot find it in the AFF2 rulebook

Thanks in advance
Try this
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=957

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SkinnyOrc
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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by SkinnyOrc » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:19 pm

My understanding is anyone attacked has to make the opposing SKILL roll to see if they get hit but because they're not attacking themselves if they win they do no damage. Also the caster gets a minus on the casting roll for being attacked while they're doing it.

Zorakzor
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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by Zorakzor » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:10 pm

But, the wizard roll dice? Or is his skill the "target number"?
If he can roll dice (even if only to defece), magic is true powerful...

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SkinnyOrc
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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by SkinnyOrc » Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:41 am

Zorakzor wrote:But, the wizard roll dice? Or is his skill the "target number"?
Sure, they roll as normal. It's no different to what you do when a character's being attacked by multiple enemies and you've done the one they choose to attack back. They've already acted but their combat experience still affects how easy they are to hit.
Zorakzor wrote:If he can roll dice (even if only to defece), magic is true powerful...
Specialist Wizards have low SKILL and weapon skills so even counting everything their defense isn't great. But I wouldn't allow fight defensively (or any other combat options) when casting. Plus if you wanted you could say their weapon skill doesn't count in this situation, although personally I think it's fine as is.

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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by Eddie » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:00 pm

the order of play in this question is:
cast spell, roll to see if it works, resolve spell.
if enemy survives they try to hit you, both roll Skill as normal and if they win you get injured, if you win nobody gets hurt.

example: wizard Skill 4 staff skill 1 casts a fire bolt at goblin
goblin gets to try and dodge it (2D6 roll equal to or under skill) if failed it takes 1D6 damage, if it dies all is well for the wizard.
if it dodges or is hit but doesn't die the goblin and wizard both roll for fight
if wizard wins he avoids damage, but doesn't whack the goblin as he wasn't trying to.
if goblin wins it stabs the wizard

you don't get to fight and cast a spell in the same round normally, although there is a sorcery spell that allows this (NIP I think?) for a limited time.

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Laurence
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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by Laurence » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:05 pm

So what happens if we simplify it like this?:

Wizard rolls 2d6+MAGIC vs. goblin rolls 2d6+SKILL.

If the wizard rolls higher, the spell hits the goblin, while the goblin misses.

If the goblin rolls higher, the spell misses and the goblin hits the wizard.

If we use this mechanic, we lose the possibility of both hitting or both missing. But that’s OK with me. Plus, it simplifies things to a single pair of die rolls.

What do you think?

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dcpchamber
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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by dcpchamber » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:50 pm

I only allow the spellcaster to use the Dodge Skill in addition to the normal SKILL roll in this situations. I think that it gets too overpowered to allow a spellcaster to both use its magic and use its best weapong skill to avoid being hit.
Laurence wrote:So what happens if we simplify it like this?:
Wizard rolls 2d6+MAGIC vs. goblin rolls 2d6+SKILL.
I already tried this a long time ago and it simply didn't function very well. It becomes frustrating for the wizard in a combat against an oponent of equivalent power of more powerful. I think that the base system works well, simply following the combat order tends to make things work out right. If the spellcaster ever finds itself being the target of attacks the penalties will make it extremely difficult for conjuring spells, as it should be. Some spells can be extremely powerful when used right in combat.

Also, in the Sorcery series most of the time you can only cast spells before entering a combat, and this could be interpreted as the high penalty to cast spells while in melee combat.

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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by Eddie » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:01 pm

that simplification is more complex than the current rules though and entirely benefits the wizard.
I wouldn't enable a wizard to dodge: they're grabbing hold of the arcane energies that surround them and bending them to their will, it is enough to give them a penalty to their casting roll, so they're a little too busy right now to try and dodge a sword more than their inherent ability.

actually even if trained with a weapon they have to hand I think they'd only use their basic Skill for this reason.

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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by SkinnyOrc » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:18 pm

Eddie wrote: even if trained with a weapon they have to hand I think they'd only use their basic Skill for this reason.
It's one that hadn't even occurred to me until this thread but you could argue either way. Say the caster has a staff in their hands, I cant see them putting it down before starting a spell. So I think we have to assume you can cast with something in your hands. If they have a staff in hand while casting and they're using their combat experience to avoid being hit, you'd think the staff would make a difference. But on the other hand their defense should be poorer while casting. So maybe weapon skill counts but defense while casting is at minus 2? What that'd mean is the weapon skill needs to be decent before it does more than just balance out the penalty.

The arguments for and against getting benefit from the dodge skill while casting to me are the same as for weapon skills. If you're good at avoiding attacks you still are while casting, but it should be harder to defend while you're doing something that takes that much concentration. So for me same solution, allow the special skill but have a flat penalty on defending while casting.

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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by Eddie » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:16 pm

yes i hadn't really thought about it, I even gave the wizard in my example above 1 point in staff skill for exactly this reason (i'd spend 1 point on staff or another weapon as a wizard: Skill 4 is lower than almost all enemies, whereas 5 is a massive difference as you are at least equal to a goblin in a fight)

but my thinking is that the +1 to your effective combat roll is surely for "using" the weapon not simply "having it in your hand(s)"?
same goes for dodge: either you're dodging attacks OR you're casting a spell and not both (?)

as for a flat penalty the issue (say -2 for the sake of discussion) then is having special skill 1 in sword and a sword to hand gives you a net -1 to your skill combat skill total, whereas simply having no weapon is no change.

dodge isn't used as a roll in combat anyway (it used to be, defensive fighting option is a better option anyway in current rules unless your dodge is very high. arguably i'd still use dodge as an option, even as a less useful one)
so I do think when fighting you're using Skill as your basic combat ability, not using any weapons to hand because they are merely in your hand, possibly give them a penalty to the magic roll in exchange for a dodge bonus to your Skill? (but then what about natural mage, this would purely be a benefit for the character with this talent)

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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by SkinnyOrc » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:27 am

Eddie wrote:as for a flat penalty the issue (say -2 for the sake of discussion) then is having special skill 1 in sword and a sword to hand gives you a net -1 to your skill combat skill total, whereas simply having no weapon is no change.
I was thinking the penalty would apply any time you were defending while casting, even if you didn't have a weapon to help. You're right it doesn't work otherwise.
Eddie wrote:dodge isn't used as a roll in combat anyway (it used to be, defensive fighting option is a better option anyway in current rules unless your dodge is very high. arguably i'd still use dodge as an option, even as a less useful one)
I'd forgotten this is a house rule but I have it the Dodge skill is added to the combat roll against missiles. Adding the defenders weapon skill there doesn't make a lot of sense, but you also can't have the attacker adding a special skill and the defender adding nothing. It's a small step from that to allowing adding the Dodge skill to the defense roll if they don't have a weapon out, although I can't see that one coming up so much.

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Re: Spellcasting in combat

Post by Eddie » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:14 pm

yes i'd seen that issue myself and already decided on this houserule (the dodge versus missile weapons, as my intended quote didn't quite work out)

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