I agree but if we are talking about these regional lists, that to me has the potential to change that around a bit. Especially if someone from one region can learn from someone in another. I might have got the wrong end of the stick though.SkinnyOrc wrote:I like that stuff too but I think it suits wizardry better than sorcery.
Again I agree and this is how I always understood Sorcery to be, until this thread... Now its got me wondering.SkinnyOrc wrote:With the sorcerers having a set spell list the guys doing their initial training know all the spells the pupil will learn. So it doesn't really make sense they'd not give the pupils all the material they need to learn them.
I would say I am wondering, this thread has posed some interesting takes on Sorcery I didn't know or consider yet. I wouldn't say I don't want fixed lists but I am now wondering if they CAN be shaken up a little bit without damaging things, if they make them more approachable that would be a good thing because it sounds like a few people aren't comfortable with them at all. The Sorcerers Apprentice is new to me, that has some potential. 'Not having all your spells at once' is an interesting statement in relation to that too. That might be the gap in the idea of fixed lists that allows them to remain fixed and yet at the same time allows play to be employed to acquire those remaining spells.SkinnyOrc wrote:It sounds like you'd like the sorcerer spells to not be a fixed list. The Sorcerer's Apprentice option means they don't get all their spells at once but it doesn't change that. The whole regional sorcery thing doesn't really work either if the spell lists aren't set. But of course you could ditch the fixed lists too if you wanted. I do agree with everything you said about character advancement motivating travels and adventures, it makes what happens more personal to the PCs.
I think really, Sorcerers are weird and are meant to be. Theres a touch of something a bit hippy about them and that lends itself to the idea of a sorcerer being sent by his master to another to 'learn' something. Really thats what I was trying to get at in an attempt to throw a possible answer to your three questions (probably badly as I'm pretty sure you have been playing a lot longer than I have).
I think the spirit of these guys is such that the length of time to learn a sorcery spell could easily be decided on visiting some hippy mate of your Sorcerer teacher and he throws you a couple of challenges, potentially dangerous ( hopefully very) and mind altering at the end ( Luke Skywalker entering the cave to confront his dark side, Cord from 'The Silent Flute' finding the book of mirrors and laughing when all he sees on every page is himself)SkinnyOrc wrote:1. It's kind of vague. How fast can they learn them? How many do they get from each teacher/book? How much time is needed between learning each spell?.
Seeing as Sorcerers are a blend of Martial and Magical, learning through a kind of trial (Combat/wits/magic) episode seems fitting, the downtime, physical recovery and rest needed to heal up could answer how long between learning each spell too. 'The long eared green gremlin looks at you and answers your question about when you can learn your final spell and leave.. "Not yet ready are you, young Skystrider, healed your wounds must be before you confront the Manticore of Doom and wrest from it the secret Pearl of Wisdom". To be honest acquiring the ingredient could also be key to learning the spell if you take this sort of route, the harder the ingredient to get, the longer the trial E.G a Giant's Skull vs a handfull of pebbles. Things like Pebbles may seem too straight forward ( and should be a lot more so than a Giants Skull) but you could still be specific to add an element of being tested. Acquiring them from a specific place, on a specific date, beneath a certain phase of the moon with some potential danger if need be. The difficulty should reflect the spell and this might be all that the Apprentice needs really to do to finish off his training. Thats still different enough from Wizardry, yes they have to adventure to find books and tomes and the like but they then research the spell. Sorcerers are a little more hands on and hippy/Tibetan warrior Monk/Pilgrim-esque ( In a way), the journey is the 'research' for them (depending on the GMs style too you can weave metaphor into it too, or narrative on a eureka moment). Being tested and sent to open their eyes, rather than Study could be the definition between learning styles. I realise from a rules point of view thats not a hard answer on the surface but its got the makings of being so, if you can offer some sort of framework for the acquisition of Components and the types of trials each spell might require. God I've gone on a long time, sorry! What do you think?