Monks

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SkinnyOrc
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Monks

Postby SkinnyOrc » Thu May 11, 2017 3:26 pm

The module I'm converting at the moment has monks in it as bodyguards for a group of sages. These being D&D monks they're more Shaolin than Friar Tuck. So did any gamebooks set in Allansia have martial arts using monks? I'd be keener to leave them as they are in the module if there were. But I'm also thinking that most real orders of monks around the world had no martial arts training at all, so these guys would be unusual if they did. Maybe they're from elsewhere on Titan?

If they do end up having martial arts skills the next thing to work out will be how to handle that game mechanics wise.
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Re: Monks

Postby Slloyd14 » Thu May 11, 2017 6:01 pm

There are martial monks on the Isles of the Dawn (they play a big part in the Crimson Tide). The order you can join have red robes, but there are other orders.
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Re: Monks

Postby SkinnyOrc » Fri May 12, 2017 1:51 pm

Okay thanks for the info. Personally I was never that keen on the way D&D mixed oriental style monks into a quasi-european setting and I feel the same way for AFF. But what I might do is make them mysterious outsiders to Allansia fighting in a way that astonishes the locals.

After looking at a few options my opinion is martial arts can be handled with pretty much standard AFF2 mechanics using a new Combat Special Skill.

Martial Arts
This Special Skill covers the use of a system of punches, kicks, holds and/or throws developed beyond that of standard unarmed combat, and should be added to a Hero’s combat total when fighting unarmed. This Special Skill also enables the Dodge Special Skill to provide protection against attacks in the same way as the Swashbuckler talent. The Martial Arts Special Skill may only be learnt from another practitioner willing to train the character. Such people are unknown in Allansia and rare even in the regions where these fighting styles originated, such as the Isles of the Dawn and Hachiman.

Damage profile is: Martial Arts 2 3 3 3 3 3 4
Last edited by SkinnyOrc on Sun May 14, 2017 3:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monks

Postby Dupont » Fri May 12, 2017 2:03 pm

SkinnyOrc wrote:Okay thanks for the info. Personally I was never that keen on the way D&D mixed oriental style monks into a quasi-european setting and I feel the same way for AFF. But what I might do is make them mysterious outsiders to Allansia fighting in a new way that astonishes the locals.

After looking at a few options my opinion is martial arts can be handled using pretty much standard AFF2 mechanics using a new Combat Special Skill.

Martial Arts
This Special Skill covers the use of a system of punches, kicks, holds and/or throws developed beyond that of standard unarmed combat, and should be added to a Hero’s combat total when fighting unarmed. The Martial Arts Special Skill also enables the Dodge Special Skill to provide protection against attacks in the same way as the Swashbuckler talent. The Martial Arts Special Skill may only be learnt from another practitioner willing to pass on their knowledge. Such people are unknown in Allansia and rare even in the regions where these fighting styles originated, such as Isles of the Dawn and Hachiman.

Damage profile is: Martial Arts 2 3 3 3 3 3 4


I like it, I do have two thoughts though.

1 - The region north of Pagan Plains surely would have martial Arts? The Cities along the River Kok are all very Oriental in theme or am I being dopey? If thats true, to keep a control on it you could just have it that its unknown to outsiders, and definitiely not taught to people from other parts. Thats a fairly accurate depiction of Martial Arts even today in some parts.

2 - For some reason I keep visualising Sorcerers as being ideally suited to being Monks/Martial Artists. Not all Sorceres, and not all Monks/Martial Artists should be sorcerers, but some could easily be from that kind of mystic monk background. Also there is a lot of Tibetan theme there in those regions of the Old World. Just thinking out loud, its been a tiring week
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Re: Monks

Postby SkinnyOrc » Fri May 12, 2017 2:13 pm

Dupont wrote:1 - The region north of Pagan Plains surely would have martial Arts? The Cities along the River Kok are all very Oriental in theme or am I being dopey? If thats true, to keep a control on it you could just have it that its unknown to outsiders, and definitiely not taught to people from other parts. Thats a fairly accurate depiction of Martial Arts even today in some parts.
Possibly but apart from the place names I'm not sure these areas really are all that oriental in theme. The only gamebook I'm familiar with set there is Deathtrap Dungeon and there's nothing much oriental in that as far as I remember. But even if there is it doesn't mean they have martial arts or martial monks. I'll be interested to see what other's who know more think on that one.

Dupont wrote:2 - For some reason I keep visualising Sorcerers as being ideally suited to being Monks/Martial Artists. Not all Sorceres, and not all Monks/Martial Artists should be sorcerers, but some could easily be from that kind of mystic monk background. Also there is a lot of Tibetan theme there in those regions of the Old World. Just thinking out loud, its been a tiring week
No it's food for thought. In a way Wizards are better suited because they don't wear armour, but yep I can see Sorcerers learning their skills in a monastic sort of set up so there's a fit in that way. In theory any type of character could learn martial arts. The question for the Director isn't just where people who can teach it might be found but also what they'd expect from the character. Maybe you can only learn it if you join an order and spend years in training.
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Re: Monks

Postby Ruffnut » Fri May 12, 2017 5:42 pm

SkinnyOrc wrote:
Dupont wrote:1 - The region north of Pagan Plains surely would have martial Arts? The Cities along the River Kok are all very Oriental in theme or am I being dopey? If thats true, to keep a control on it you could just have it that its unknown to outsiders, and definitiely not taught to people from other parts. Thats a fairly accurate depiction of Martial Arts even today in some parts.
Possibly but apart from the place names I'm not sure these areas really are all that oriental in theme. The only gamebook I'm familiar with set there is Deathtrap Dungeon and there's nothing much oriental in that as far as I remember. But even if there is it doesn't mean they have martial arts or martial monks. I'll be interested to see what other's who know more think on that one.

Dupont wrote:2 - For some reason I keep visualising Sorcerers as being ideally suited to being Monks/Martial Artists. Not all Sorceres, and not all Monks/Martial Artists should be sorcerers, but some could easily be from that kind of mystic monk background. Also there is a lot of Tibetan theme there in those regions of the Old World. Just thinking out loud, its been a tiring week
No it's food for thought. In a way Wizards are better suited because they don't wear armour, but yep I can see Sorcerers learning their skills in a monastic sort of set up so there's a fit in that way. In theory any type of character could learn martial arts. The question for the Director isn't just where people who can teach it might be found but also what they'd expect from the character. Maybe you can only learn it if you join an order and spend years in training.


Maybe if a sorcerer knows martial arts, he has +1 casting roll, like he shoot the spell from his fist, like you sometimes see in cartoons.
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Re: Monks

Postby Nuvole! » Sat May 13, 2017 3:49 am

SkinnyOrc wrote:
Dupont wrote:1 - The region north of Pagan Plains surely would have martial Arts? The Cities along the River Kok are all very Oriental in theme or am I being dopey? If thats true, to keep a control on it you could just have it that its unknown to outsiders, and definitiely not taught to people from other parts. Thats a fairly accurate depiction of Martial Arts even today in some parts.
Possibly but apart from the place names I'm not sure these areas really are all that oriental in theme. The only gamebook I'm familiar with set there is Deathtrap Dungeon and there's nothing much oriental in that as far as I remember.

1) among the challengers of the Deathtrap Dungeon, besides barbarians etc., there is a Ninja, but it could come from Hachiman or other parts of Titan outside Allansia...
2) in the background / paragraph one, the citizens of Fang are described as "slender eyed" and in the associated image shows them looking "oriental".
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Re: Monks

Postby shintokamikaze » Sat May 13, 2017 12:46 pm

Nuvole! wrote:
SkinnyOrc wrote:
Dupont wrote:1 - The region north of Pagan Plains surely would have martial Arts? The Cities along the River Kok are all very Oriental in theme or am I being dopey? If thats true, to keep a control on it you could just have it that its unknown to outsiders, and definitiely not taught to people from other parts. Thats a fairly accurate depiction of Martial Arts even today in some parts.
Possibly but apart from the place names I'm not sure these areas really are all that oriental in theme. The only gamebook I'm familiar with set there is Deathtrap Dungeon and there's nothing much oriental in that as far as I remember.

1) among the challengers of the Deathtrap Dungeon, besides barbarians etc., there is a Ninja, but it could come from Hachiman or other parts of Titan outside Allansia...
2) in the background / paragraph one, the citizens of Fang are described as "slender eyed" and in the associated image shows them looking "oriental".

I would class Chiang Mai as like Korea, a cold barren land. Kay Pong as like 17th century China not a real country more like a group of nation states with a lot of European influences. Hachiman would be more like Japan. You can see in the DD pic that the locals look Asian. I would also say that members of the assassin guild would have access to Ninja style training.
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Re: Monks

Postby Dupont » Sat May 13, 2017 12:59 pm

shintokamikaze wrote:
Nuvole! wrote:
SkinnyOrc wrote:Possibly but apart from the place names I'm not sure these areas really are all that oriental in theme. The only gamebook I'm familiar with set there is Deathtrap Dungeon and there's nothing much oriental in that as far as I remember.

1) among the challengers of the Deathtrap Dungeon, besides barbarians etc., there is a Ninja, but it could come from Hachiman or other parts of Titan outside Allansia...
2) in the background / paragraph one, the citizens of Fang are described as "slender eyed" and in the associated image shows them looking "oriental".

I would class Chiang Mai as like Korea, a cold barren land. Kay Pong as like 17th century China not a real country more like a group of nation states with a lot of European influences. Hachiman would be more like Japan. You can see in the DD pic that the locals look Asian. I would also say that members of the assassin guild would have access to Ninja style training.
Image


I was waiting for you to answer :D

So what kind of skills would the Assassins guild have? The usual Ninja stuff like escapology, rope tying, explosives?? Poisons and Arrow Cutting?
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Re: Monks

Postby shintokamikaze » Sat May 13, 2017 1:28 pm

Dupont wrote:
shintokamikaze wrote:
Nuvole! wrote:1) among the challengers of the Deathtrap Dungeon, besides barbarians etc., there is a Ninja, but it could come from Hachiman or other parts of Titan outside Allansia...
2) in the background / paragraph one, the citizens of Fang are described as "slender eyed" and in the associated image shows them looking "oriental".

I would class Chiang Mai as like Korea, a cold barren land. Kay Pong as like 17th century China not a real country more like a group of nation states with a lot of European influences. Hachiman would be more like Japan. You can see in the DD pic that the locals look Asian. I would also say that members of the assassin guild would have access to Ninja style training.
Image


I was waiting for you to answer :D

So what kind of skills would the Assassins guild have? The usual Ninja stuff like escapology, rope tying, explosives?? Poisons and Arrow Cutting?


Im not sure, but they would have a secret unarmed combat system that is only known to members :P
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Re: Monks

Postby shintokamikaze » Sat May 13, 2017 1:48 pm

Dupont wrote:
shintokamikaze wrote:
Nuvole! wrote:1) among the challengers of the Deathtrap Dungeon, besides barbarians etc., there is a Ninja, but it could come from Hachiman or other parts of Titan outside Allansia...
2) in the background / paragraph one, the citizens of Fang are described as "slender eyed" and in the associated image shows them looking "oriental".

I would class Chiang Mai as like Korea, a cold barren land. Kay Pong as like 17th century China not a real country more like a group of nation states with a lot of European influences. Hachiman would be more like Japan. You can see in the DD pic that the locals look Asian. I would also say that members of the assassin guild would have access to Ninja style training.
Image


I was waiting for you to answer :D

So what kind of skills would the Assassins guild have? The usual Ninja stuff like escapology, rope tying, explosives?? Poisons and Arrow Cutting?


At first guess I would have special ninja weapons like this
Shuriken
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1 1 2 2 2 2 3
nunchaku
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
2 2 2 3 3 3 4
Tekko kagi(claws) + 1 climb
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
2 3 3 3 4 5 5
Tekken(Knuckle Dusters) +1 damage unarmed
Smoke bomb
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Re: Monks

Postby SkinnyOrc » Sun May 14, 2017 4:28 am

Nuvole! wrote:among the challengers of the Deathtrap Dungeon, besides barbarians etc., there is a Ninja, but it could come from Hachiman or other parts of Titan outside Allansia...
Yep agree, he could be a local but it seems more likely the challengers have come from all over Titan. Sounds like the Trial of Champions had become pretty famous.

Nuvole! wrote:in the background / paragraph one, the citizens of Fang are described as "slender eyed" and in the associated image shows them looking "oriental".
That's all I can find too.

shintokamikaze wrote:I would class Chiang Mai as like Korea, a cold barren land.
Only thing is there's not a lot of space there for an entire country.

shintokamikaze wrote:I would also say that members of the assassin guild would have access to Ninja style training.
Yeah but it could be european or middle eastern style assassin training in a place like Port Blacksand. Still interested in what an AFF2 ninja would look like though!

Bottom line is I'm very wary of extending such thin canon references on something Directors could have such different views on, in something I'm writing to share. You could say the people of Chang Mai are refugees from elsewhere. They remember some of the old ways but there were never enough of them to have things like orders of martial monks and ninja. But there's a lot of other ways people can look at it. Personally I don't think an asian style region fits with the rest of NW Allansia at all, it's like plonking Thailand down where Belgium is. So I've left Chang Mai out of my Allansia completely. But I'm not going to push that view by assuming that either.

What we can say is none of the books AFAIK have people using oriental style martial arts in Allansia and we have no rules for it in the rulebooks. So it's likely people there wouldn't be expecting someone unarmed to be so dangerous.
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Re: Monks

Postby Ruffnut » Sun May 14, 2017 9:03 am

shintokamikaze wrote:
Dupont wrote:
shintokamikaze wrote:I would class Chiang Mai as like Korea, a cold barren land. Kay Pong as like 17th century China not a real country more like a group of nation states with a lot of European influences. Hachiman would be more like Japan. You can see in the DD pic that the locals look Asian. I would also say that members of the assassin guild would have access to Ninja style training.
Image


I was waiting for you to answer :D

So what kind of skills would the Assassins guild have? The usual Ninja stuff like escapology, rope tying, explosives?? Poisons and Arrow Cutting?


At first guess I would have special ninja weapons like this
Shuriken
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1 1 2 2 2 2 3
nunchaku
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
2 2 2 3 3 3 4
Tekko kagi(claws) + 1 climb
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
2 3 3 3 4 5 5
Tekken(Knuckle Dusters) +1 damage unarmed
Smoke bomb


EPIC WEAPONS! I would give The Tekken damage as per club. Otherwise on any roll but a 6 it will deal only 1 stamina
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Re: Monks

Postby shintokamikaze » Sun May 14, 2017 9:16 am

SkinnyOrc wrote:
Nuvole! wrote:among the challengers of the Deathtrap Dungeon, besides barbarians etc., there is a Ninja, but it could come from Hachiman or other parts of Titan outside Allansia...
Yep agree, he could be a local but it seems more likely the challengers have come from all over Titan. Sounds like the Trial of Champions had become pretty famous.

Nuvole! wrote:in the background / paragraph one, the citizens of Fang are described as "slender eyed" and in the associated image shows them looking "oriental".
That's all I can find too.

shintokamikaze wrote:I would class Chiang Mai as like Korea, a cold barren land.
Only thing is there's not a lot of space there for an entire country.

shintokamikaze wrote:I would also say that members of the assassin guild would have access to Ninja style training.
Yeah but it could be european or middle eastern style assassin training in a place like Port Blacksand. Still interested in what an AFF2 ninja would look like though!

Bottom line is I'm very wary of extending such thin canon references on something Directors could have such different views on, in something I'm writing to share. You could say the people of Chang Mai are refugees from elsewhere. They remember some of the old ways but there were never enough of them to have things like orders of martial monks and ninja. But there's a lot of other ways people can look at it. Personally I don't think an asian style region fits with the rest of NW Allansia at all, it's like plonking Thailand down where Belgium is. So I've left Chang Mai out of my Allansia completely. But I'm not going to push that view by assuming that either.

What we can say is none of the books AFAIK have people using oriental style martial arts in Allansia and we have no rules for it in the rulebooks. So it's likely people there wouldn't be expecting someone unarmed to be so dangerous.


The way I see Allansia would be like 18th century China on a much bigger and longer scale, old Allansia was once a great Asian like Empire but after the fall of the dynasty of swords split into many small countries and European like influences and settlers began to creep in from the Old World till you have a melting pot of cultures with many areas in the North retaining a strong Asian flavor.
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Re: Monks

Postby shintokamikaze » Sun May 14, 2017 9:47 am

Ruffnut wrote:
shintokamikaze wrote:
Dupont wrote:
I was waiting for you to answer :D

So what kind of skills would the Assassins guild have? The usual Ninja stuff like escapology, rope tying, explosives?? Poisons and Arrow Cutting?


At first guess I would have special ninja weapons like this
Shuriken
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1 1 2 2 2 2 3
nunchaku
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
2 2 2 3 3 3 4
Tekko kagi(claws) + 1 climb
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
2 3 3 3 4 5 5
Tekken(Knuckle Dusters) +1 damage unarmed
Smoke bomb


EPIC WEAPONS! I would give The Tekken damage as per club. Otherwise on any roll but a 6 it will deal only 1 stamina


Lol you are right I made a mistake, it should be like this. I am trying to find the rules for retreating from combat can't seem to locate them, any idea what page?

Shuriken
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1 1 2 2 2 2 3
nunchaku
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
2 2 2 3 3 3 4
Tekko kagi(claws) + 1 climb
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
2 3 3 3 4 5 5
Tekken(Knuckle Dusters) + 1 damage roll improvised weapon

Smoke bomb

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