Missile combat modifiers

Post Reply
JoeDuncan
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:25 pm

Missile combat modifiers

Post by JoeDuncan » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:38 pm

Hi all, I was wondering what the hive mind interpretations of the missile combat modifiers are?

Is it really -5 to fire "into a fight"? Why is that so much different than firing before a target closes to melee? Or firing on a single target in a multiple person fight?

Firing on a target before they get to melee range is just a combat roll, except the archer takes no damage on a miss, so why would they have -5 when firing into another fight?

For that matter, if 2 PCs fight 1 monster who only has 1 attack, and one of the PCs is using a ranged weapon, is the archer considered to be firing "into combat" or not?

Also what do people think of the other modifiers? Do they all stack, or do some preclude others?

e.g. "firing into combat" would seem to already account for a "moving target", so surely it would still only be -5 and not -6?

Does "into combat" imply that they must be beyond melee range? If so, does the -5 stack on top the medium or long modifiers?

It seems to me like the "firing into combat" modifier would make it awfully hard to be an effective archer, as they'd only be able to hit anything if they were part of the melee...

HedgeWizard
Adventurer
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:20 pm

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by HedgeWizard » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:38 am

Hi Joe,

The firing into combat is if you are firing into a group of people fighting. Trying to hit someone in a pair (or more) of fighters when they are moving in all directions is very difficult so I don't think a -6 is inappropriate. I also add it on top of the other modifiers. The shooter should be keeping out of any meter and picking off enemies who are approaching or isolated for any reason. I would even go so far to add a chance that if you miss then you'll hit the other person.

You are not going to be using ranged weapons within mêlée range normally because after one shot you are going to loose time changing to a weapon you can use again.

So for the modifiers I use them all by and large because they make sense. But I don't treat any of hem as a sacred cow and will change them if the situation demands.

TheoOfSilverton
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:07 pm
Location: Kingdom of Rheged

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by TheoOfSilverton » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:20 am

Just to echo what HedgeWizard has said... People fighting in melee or hand to hand will be moving quite erratically, lunging in, dodging back, and shifting side to side to attack and parry. They will often be circling around each other too, so compared to someone running in a fairly straight line, it is very difficult to predict exactly where a target will be by the time your arrow reaches them.

I'd be tempted to say that if the shot misses by 3 points, then the other person is hit. It's a risky business...
In a time of fear and confusion, silence charging the air
The sunlight is gone, darkness lives on, in the heart of the dragon's lair

JoeDuncan
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:25 pm

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by JoeDuncan » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:57 am

I get what both of you are saying, but I don't think you've understood my implication.

Take the following two scenarios, for example:

Scenario a) an archer and a swordsman encounter a goblin, the goblin attacks the archer
-the archer gets to fire once before the melee, an unmodified opposed roll against the goblin, but takes no damage if the goblin wins (damage by the goblin would be dealt in the melee phase of combat)

Scenario b) an archer and a swordsman encounter a goblin, the goblin attacks the swordsman
-the archer gets to fire once before the melee, an opposed roll against the goblin with a -5 mod for "firing into combat", but takes no damage if the goblin wins

In both cases the goblin is going to be moving "quite erratically, lunging in, dodging back, shifting side to side" except in scenario a) the goblin is doing it deliberately to avoid getting shot with an arrow, and in scenario b) the goblin is doing it to avoid getting stabbed by the swordsman.

Why would it be harder to hit a goblin dodging and paying attention to someone else than one specifically trying to dodge your attack?

HedgeWizard
Adventurer
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:20 pm

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by HedgeWizard » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:20 am

Let's assume that the archer and swordsman are standing near each other when they encounter the goblin. This means he runs the same distance to each of them. So in scenario b the archer shoots once without a modifier and then can shoot again with a modifier once the goblin has reached and engaged the swordsman.

Nuvole!
Hero
Posts: 950
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:06 pm

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by Nuvole! » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:09 pm

It is just a house rule, but I can't find a sense in doing an opposed roll for ranged weapons, so I roll for target score.
If your modified roll (+SKILL +Special Skill +ranges, etc.) is 15 you hit and roll for damage, that's it. Then you can roll for Armor to reduce the raged damage.
This way, two archers can hit each other or both miss if their roll is poor and you don't oppose the roll of a swordsman to a roll of an archer far away from the swordsman.
He's a real Nowhere man, sitting in his Nowhere land, making all his Nowhere plans for Nobody.

HedgeWizard
Adventurer
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:20 pm

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by HedgeWizard » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:45 pm

Nuvole! wrote:It is just a house rule, but I can't find a sense in doing an opposed roll for ranged weapons, so I roll for target score.
If your modified roll (+SKILL +Special Skill +ranges, etc.) is 15 you hit and roll for damage, that's it. Then you can roll for Armor to reduce the raged damage.
This way, two archers can hit each other or both miss if their roll is poor and you don't oppose the roll of a swordsman to a roll of an archer far away from the swordsman.
For shooting I actually do the same.

JoeDuncan
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:25 pm

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by JoeDuncan » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:08 am

in scenario b the archer shoots once without a modifier and then can shoot again with a modifier once the goblin has reached and engaged the swordsman
That makes sense. I just figured that if you were in the "missile phase" of combat, pretty much everyone involved counted as "in combat".

I'm not so sure about large creatures though, shouldn't they still be relatively easy to hit? Whether it's in combat or not doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference to something dragon-sized. I don't see any missile modifiers for firing at large targets anywhere though.
If your modified roll (+SKILL +Special Skill +ranges, etc.) is 15 you hit and roll for damage, that's it.
I just dug out my old books, the original rule in 1e was the roll-under equivalent of this.

I do kind of like the opposed roll version though, it basically abstracts the firefight away so you don't have to call every single shot.

HedgeWizard
Adventurer
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:20 pm

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by HedgeWizard » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:49 am

For the large creatures like a Dragon or unusual situations I think you are free to use common sense or house rules. AFF is not about creating strict rules for every situation, feel free to colour outside the lines if you want or need to!

Eddie
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:46 pm

Re: Missile combat modifiers

Post by Eddie » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:20 pm

regarding large and tough monsters though hitting the dragon is easy, hitting the dragon in a spot liable to take injury may be harder though.

so a "miss" might in fact be an arrow glancing off the bony ridge on the dragons head, no way of causing damage there.

in fact I will be keeping the versus roll the same for ranged combat against a non-ranged combatant but they use their dodge skill instead of sword or whatever, plain Skill if they have no relevant special skill.
I don't want expert swordsmen parrying arrows out of the air, but goblins dodging around rocky outcrops, using trees for cover in a wood or similar while they advance?
sure why not.
I imagine in medieval times when archers and swordsmen fought a similar situation occurred after all

maybe in certain terrain the appropriate special skill could be used?
Dodge would be the general, but an elf with wood lore 3 would use that instead, the dwarf with underground lore 2 would use that in caves/dungeons, marsh lore could be used in that terrain.
would add some combat utility to otherwise non-combat skills and fits the background for fantasy worlds too.

Post Reply