Questions on monster damage modifiers

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JoeDuncan
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Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by JoeDuncan » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:19 am

In the back of AFF2 there's a table of weapons, armour and damage modifiers for the monsters in Out of the Pit.

A couple of them don't seem to make sense.

For example, the "Earth Elemental" where it normally lists the attack as "Small/Medium/Large", it says "4" and then under modifiers it says "Double Damage". So does the "Earth Elemental" do 4 or 8 pts of damage?
I assume it is listed as "Double Damage" because earth elementals did 4 pts of dmg in the books, which is technically double the normal damage.

If they were supposed to do @4pts each hit, then wouldn't it be listed as simply "Large" where 4 is the expected val? Or perhaps "Large/+dmg roll", or even simply list the damage as "4" and don't specify a modifier...
If the damage was intended to be @8, then why not list it as "Medium/x2 dmg", or simply "8" in the damage with no mod?

Anyways, it's unclear what damage an Earth Elemental is intended to do...

Also, adult dragons do an *obscene* amount of damage if I'm reading this right. A adult dragon does "Large/x2" dmg, which is "6 6 8 8 10 12 (14)", with 4 attacks that's expected damage of @32/round! And that's before spells OR dragon breath!

Nuvole!
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by Nuvole! » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:02 pm

Lots of damage, but only one attack for each opponent.
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Ruffnut
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by Ruffnut » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:15 pm

JoeDuncan wrote:In the back of AFF2 there's a table of weapons, armour and damage modifiers for the monsters in Out of the Pit.

A couple of them don't seem to make sense.

For example, the "Earth Elemental" where it normally lists the attack as "Small/Medium/Large", it says "4" and then under modifiers it says "Double Damage". So does the "Earth Elemental" do 4 or 8 pts of damage?
I assume it is listed as "Double Damage" because earth elementals did 4 pts of dmg in the books, which is technically double the normal damage.

If they were supposed to do @4pts each hit, then wouldn't it be listed as simply "Large" where 4 is the expected val? Or perhaps "Large/+dmg roll", or even simply list the damage as "4" and don't specify a modifier...
If the damage was intended to be @8, then why not list it as "Medium/x2 dmg", or simply "8" in the damage with no mod?

Anyways, it's unclear what damage an Earth Elemental is intended to do...

Also, adult dragons do an *obscene* amount of damage if I'm reading this right. A adult dragon does "Large/x2" dmg, which is "6 6 8 8 10 12 (14)", with 4 attacks that's expected damage of @32/round! And that's before spells OR dragon breath!
In my opinion Dragons are still not dangerous enough!!
He just sits there tapping away all day on a tiny screen. But he tells everyone that he is slaying Orcs.

HedgeWizard
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by HedgeWizard » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:56 pm

I'm in agreement. Dragons are meant to be rediculously dangerous creatures which have hardened adventurers as a light aperitif before dinner.

Ruffnut
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by Ruffnut » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:20 pm

HedgeWizard wrote:I'm in agreement. Dragons are meant to be rediculously dangerous creatures which have hardened adventurers as a light aperitif before dinner.
If you upscale creatures based on mass battle unit sizes, giants have 100+ stamina, and dragons almost 1k... / ever higher I forget how many normal troops they are worth.
He just sits there tapping away all day on a tiny screen. But he tells everyone that he is slaying Orcs.

HedgeWizard
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by HedgeWizard » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:43 pm

Not so crazy when you consider thy are supposed to be able to lay waste to whole cities and even kingdoms. Well until some hero turns up and finishes them off but that is almost always a fatal experience for them in the stories.

Eddie
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by Eddie » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:22 pm

i think the 4 is an error from the books as stated.
large fist and double damage would seem appropriate given how powerful they are supposed to be.

dragons are very powerful and they are supposed to be, I think their breath weapons could be powered up a little bit more personally.

if anything the issues with dragons are their relative vulnerability to a wizard/sorcerer: 2-3 lightning blasts/ZAPs and they will likely be done.

JoeDuncan
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by JoeDuncan » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:09 am

... issues with dragons are their relative vulnerability to a wizard/sorcerer: 2-3 lightning blasts/ZAPs...
*Everything* dies to lightningzaps, it's not a Dragon specific weakness!

I've just run through Wishing Well and Agbar's Retreat with a 3 PC party, and both times the boss went down right quick after a lightning blast. The wizard had 18mp, and used a handful of weakness/force bolt on the minions, but always had at least one lightning blast up his sleeve by the end fight.

Throw in some potions of magic/stam and lightningzap is OP in my opinion.

JoeDuncan
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by JoeDuncan » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:18 am

...if anything the issues with dragons are their relative vulnerability to a wizard/sorcerer: 2-3 lightning blasts/ZAPs...
Dragons do have one superb defense against spellcasters though: breath weapons.

Breath weapons are clearly "missile weapons" so would go in the first phase of combat. Just save the breath weapon until the spellcaster starts muttering, and then disrupt the casting with the breath weapon.

Eddie
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by Eddie » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:11 pm

doesn't stop the spell though, just makes it harder to cast.

there is nothing in the rules about a spell failing if you take a hit, but having a missile weapon fired at you can cause you to fail due to the penalty.
although hand to hand would penalise them more.

I am having an issue with lightning blast/ZAP of exactly this nature: if that character chooses to blow their spell they can finish a hard fight in one go, without the spell a hard enemy may well wipe out the whole party.

I think many systems struggle with the same thing.
it only becomes a problem though if the group has an issue with it.

JoeDuncan
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Re: Questions on monster damage modifiers

Post by JoeDuncan » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:47 pm

there is nothing in the rules about a spell failing if you take a hit...
Not explicitly, no, but it does say spellcasting fails if the caster is interrupted in any way; this implies getting hit with a weapon interrupts casting.

However, since the order of combat is "mssile, magic, melee" the only way to interrupt a caster before they can get their spell off is with a ranged attack.

I interpret the -1 modifier as being applied any time someone tries to cast while in a battle.

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