AFF ERRATA Thread

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bottg
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Postby bottg » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:13 pm

Logon wrote:IMHO, the TOP bug is the fact that Out of the Pit has not been updated to the new rules.
That's hard to believe, whatever the spirit of simplicity of AFF ... :cry:


Unfortunately, that was part of the license. Either reprint as is, or completely rewrite etc. Therefore we had to take th ereprint option, with updates in the core book!
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Postby Logon » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:57 pm

parkusuk wrote:
Logon wrote:IMHO, the TOP bug is the fact that Out of the Pit has not been updated to the new rules.
That's hard to believe, whatever the spirit of simplicity of AFF ... :cry:


Unfortunately, that was part of the license. Either reprint as is, or completely rewrite etc. Therefore we had to take th ereprint option, with updates in the core book!


Well, i see.
No problem. Is it the reason why the rules book is not called Dungeoneer ?
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Postby Slloyd14 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:48 am

Here's another one...

On page 39, the barbarian has the stealth skill. I expect that should be the sneaking skill.
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Postby Slloyd14 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:11 pm

This is less of an error and more of an omission. In the minor magic section of the book, I think it needs to be made more explicit that characters with a magic points score of 0 can no longer cast cantrips. There are a couple of threads here that ask that.
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Postby MountainPeak11 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Slloyd14 wrote:This is less of an error and more of an omission. In the minor magic section of the book, I think it needs to be made more explicit that characters with a magic points score of 0 can no longer cast cantrips. There are a couple of threads here that ask that.


Thanks for that. I was also not sure how to resolve my confusion over this subject. :)
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Postby Slloyd14 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:07 am

@MountainPeak11 - you're welcome - I was scratching my head about that one for a while.

Here's another:

On page 108, there is a price list for magical sundries. The last item on the list is a curative salve. On page 149, the effects of these sundries are described but the curative salve has been missed out.
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Postby davidboze » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:36 am

I have to say I love this book - really nice that it has that retro look to match up with Titan and OOTP.

I am saddened at the number of spelling and punctuation errors though, as I had planned for this to be a great first RPG for my son, especially given that the original books were obviously produced by a big publishing house and carefully checked for spelling and grammar. I really don't think that for the price there is any excuse not to get someone to give a product a close read for good English - I would have done it for free.

Never mind - I was wondering, the Strength and Brawling descriptions mention grappling. This is also mentioned as an ability for some of the beasts but not given a write up. Did this get missed out of the combat rules? Or did it get deliberately cut (we all hate grappling!) but references left in, much like what seems to have happened with some uses for dodge? How do you escape from a puddlejumper's grapple etc.? And how does a brawler engage a grapple?

I also think that although the old 2 weapon combat rule was a bit of a game breaker, your ambidextrous talent is not much better - still a little powerful? I might have kept two weapon fighting and treated it like you did mounted combat (your capping idea was exactly the house rule I arrived at) or perhaps just let the talent give two attacks like beasts, rather than two attacks on a single opponent - I will probably mod this.

I love what you have done with giving the option of linking knowledge skills to magic - that's the next best thing to breaking up the skill attribute. It really is sweet.

I think you have clearly understood the RPG mechanics and the things we all loved about AFF. It is a bit of a shame that the introductory adventure had to exemplify everything that is awful about old school dungeon design (a restaurant for the other dungeon beasts, please?) I know there is loving humour directed at the old gamebooks here, but kids just won't get it. What captivated me about Dungeoneer etc. was the really quirky and creative adventures, good plots.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble - I did start with errata. Your use of apostrophe is almost always wrong, and there are incorrect spellings of "devastating" and "already"; I'll get you the page numbers when I am back in front of the book again.

All in all, though, thanks for the timely re-release, and by all means cut and paste this to a new thread.

[edited to correct my own spelling and grammar...]
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Postby torus » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:55 pm

davidboze wrote:I have to say I love this book - really nice that it has that retro look to match up with Titan and OOTP.

I am saddened at the number of spelling and punctuation errors though, as I had planned for this to be a great first RPG for my son


I think this is definitely a great first RPG for your son. Don't let a few typos put you off. It's easy to learn, and easy to adapt: if you don't like a rule, change it!

And I have to say, I remember that restaurant from the first FF RPG adventure, and I loved it then for being fun and unexpected. At that stage it never really occurred to me to think about the rationale behind what was in the rooms of a dungeon.. but actually that seems one of the better ones! Goblins have to eat don't they?
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Postby bottg » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:32 pm

I agree that there are a few regrettable typos and errata, but not actually that many when compared to some gamebooks!

As for it being a good intro RPG, i would agree wholeheartedly. Especially if you include the FF gamebooks as part of the package.

As for the intro dungeon... It was designed to be fun, quirky and in the spirit of the original gamebooks and rpg, and as such is just about right!
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Postby skathros » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:33 am

I too have to chime in and say you did a great job with AFF! Sure, a few typos here and there and some things would need to be cleared better, but all in all, a great RPG. This was the only RPG I was looking forward to this year and it didn't disappoint! Oh, and yes, it does make an excellent first RPG!
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Postby Skywalker » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:33 am

davidboze wrote:It is a bit of a shame that the introductory adventure had to exemplify everything that is awful about old school dungeon design (a restaurant for the other dungeon beasts, please?) I know there is loving humour directed at the old gamebooks here, but kids just won't get it. What captivated me about Dungeoneer etc. was the really quirky and creative adventures, good plots.


Kids won't get it? I was around 8 or 9 when I read Wishing Well in Fighting Fantasy for the first time. I loved the restaurant. After encountering a money lender in Firetop Mountain it felt similarly cool and mysterious, like there was this whole community thriving out of everyday sight.

I wouldn't get it today, except for nostalgia, but why don't you think kids wouldn't get it today? There are similar artificialities in World of Warcraft and the like. In fact, this kind of artificiality probably appears more in computer gaming than RPGing today which is much popular and familiar to kids. It is us grizzled old RPGer who have left this simpler world of gaming behind more often than not. :)
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Postby MountainPeak11 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:37 am

Skywalker wrote:
davidboze wrote:It is a bit of a shame that the introductory adventure had to exemplify everything that is awful about old school dungeon design (a restaurant for the other dungeon beasts, please?) I know there is loving humour directed at the old gamebooks here, but kids just won't get it. What captivated me about Dungeoneer etc. was the really quirky and creative adventures, good plots.


Kids won't get it? I was around 8 or 9 when I read Wishing Well in Fighting Fantasy for the first time. I loved the restaurant. After encountering a money lender in Firetop Mountain it felt similarly cool and mysterious, like there was this whole community thriving out of everyday sight.

I wouldn't get it today, except for nostalgia, but why don't you think kids wouldn't get it today? There are similar artificialities in World of Warcraft and the like. In fact, this kind of artificiality probably appears more in computer gaming than RPGing today which is much popular and familiar to kids. It is us grizzled old RPGer who have left this simpler world of gaming behind more often than not. :)


I think Skathros means that kids won't get the subtle humour behind placing the Wishing Well mission (with the restaurant included) in the new publications of AFF. Ok, so they won't. Even I didn't get that tbh as I just assumed AFF was sticking to old-school elements in the game anyway. As SKywalker said, let the kids have fun and love the restaurant for what it is. There are many books/movies for kids where things are a little far-fetched. One example from my experience is a cartoon of Hans-Christian Anderson's The Snow Queen, and Gerda literally asked to be let in to the Snow Queen's palace. xD
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Postby skathros » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:00 pm

MountainPeak11 wrote:I think Skathros means...


Actually, that wasnt me. My favorite RPG is Tunnells & Trolls, so humour, unrealistic dungeon elements, and a disregard towards slavish adhearance to balance isn't a flaw as far as i'm concerned, but a flavor of the game.
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Postby Slloyd14 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:31 pm

On page 33, you are told that a hero with the Magic-Wizardry special skill has total spell levels equal to double their total of MAGIC and Magic-Wizardry and that no spell above level 4 can be chosen by starting heroes.

However, I can't find this written in chapter 4-Magic. I think it would be good if this was repeated in chapter 4 so that all of the magic information is in one place.

I love the fact that heroes can start with more levels of spells than starting heroes in the old AFF (they had a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 12 levels worth of spells, now they have a minimum of 4 and a maximum of 18 levels worth of spells or 20 levels if they are elves.)
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A few minor things

Postby spaceferret » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:01 pm

I love the new book format; the mere fact that it collects all the lists and tables into one volume and indexes things properly is worth buying the new edition in itself. The rules for Sorcery and the tip on rolling three dice at once are simple genius. The random dungeon generator is also fantastic, and I will definitely be using some of the other design ideas like traps and poisons.

But there are a few minor points to make sure you know of for a second printing:

- The character sheet has sword and light monster armour added (in case anyone hasn't found it, the AFF page linked to from the Arion Games website has a "clean" version)

- Experience (p56): There is no XP cost listed for cantrips. Can these not be learned by existing characters?

- Dying: p57 and p65 differ in the rules for dying. We're currently playing it that your stamina drops to -4 first, then your luck runs out until you die. But if this is the case, it would be much better to specify this explicitly in both places rather than splitting the rule across two chapters.

- The "Second Sight" skill (p30) says that further details will be given in chapter 4, but chapter 4 doesn't seem to mention Second Sight that I can see.

- [EDIT:]The prerequisites for special skills should probably be listed with the special skill descriptions. The requirement for a MAGIC characteristic of at least 1 is not stated for Magic-Wizardry, Magic-Priestly or Magic-Minor until chapter 4.

- A priest of Fourga, using their power on a human PC, will almost always boost Common, as most other starting stats have a maximum of 2 (or 3 for a single combat/stealth skill in the case of humans).

- This may be a mistake on my part, but I tried to create the Human, Elf and Dwarf races using the optional "new hero races" rules, and I keep coming up two pool points shorter than would be needed for the basic rules.

- Typos: There aren't that many that I've seen; I think there are more errors in the reprints of OOTP and Titan (see the last paragraph of "Messenger of Death" for example). One is on the publisher's page, "...without a similar condition, including this condition, being imposed on the ???". Also, the Wishing Well has a description for room number "v12".

- Typesetting: generally excellent quality; Important technical details like colour (i.e. the ratio of black and white on each line of text) are right. There are no hyphenation points, which is a little odd, and there are a few places where the tracking (letter spacing) is wide inside words. (Frederic Goudy would not be impressed).

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