Question about Priestly Magic

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Nuvole!
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Question about Priestly Magic

Post by Nuvole! » Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:14 pm

A Priest may only use each of her gifted powers once every day. If used, a power becomes available again at midnight. In dire circumstances a Priest may use one of her powers for a second time during a day, but must deduct a LUCK point to do so. No power may be used a third time during one day.
It is not clear to me if the LUCK point to be deducted has to be deducted for current or from initial LUCK.
What is your interpretation?
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Eddie
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Re: Question about Priestly Magic

Post by Eddie » Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:35 pm

Current Luck

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Re: Question about Priestly Magic

Post by SkinnyOrc » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:33 am

Anywhere the rulebook just says "deduct a LUCK point" I believe it means from current LUCK. But I think I can see where you're coming from, that seems like a pretty light penalty for something that should only happen "in dire circumstances". You could look at it that an adventuring priest really is regularly dealing with life and death situations, compared to a resident temple priest where that would be rare. So it's okay to be happening often.

The way it's written though you can take it that all of their powers can be used again by spending a LUCK point each time. I'd always thought you had to pick one a day. But if it's all four powers being usable twice a day, with just the LUCK penalty, then that seems a bit much.

Taking a fresh look at Priest powers, I'd like extra uses of the powers to be tied to the level of Magic-Priestly like this (second uses per day, each costing a LUCK point):

2 . . . 1 common power
3 . . . 2 common powers
4 . . . 3 common powers
5 . . . All 4 powers

I really like the way AFF2 Priests aren't just another spell caster, it was a brave decision to buck the RPG convention and a good one. But some progression of their powers with experience like this would give players more choices to make improving their priest character. It'd also help if the power descriptions had more in them that varied by Devotion score. At the moment there isn't as much reason to keep improving Magic-Priestly as I'd like.

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Re: Question about Priestly Magic

Post by SkinnyOrc » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:14 am

Some more ideas on this. I remember that Graham's said somewhere before that points lost from current LUCK are a bigger penalty than they might seem, because it isn't regained per day, only per adventure. I think that's true, but it is dependent on how much the Director asks the PCs to test their luck. Running low on LUCK in an adventure doesn't matter much if you forget to ask them to test it.

But even if they are having to rely on luck it seems worth asking, is one LUCK point per extra use of a priest power enough? Maybe it should be 1 LUCK point for the first extra use in a day, 2 points for the second, 3 for the third, and 4 for the fourth? If you have the Blessed Talent then a second use of one power is free, so the penalties start at 1 LUCK after that.

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Re: Question about Priestly Magic

Post by Eddie » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:01 pm

it would be a massive issue in my game, my group regularly use their Luck as essentially additional Armour points (by testing when taking a big hit and getting a 7 for their armour roll) but that's because i've been running a sandbox style game.

if they don't go to specific places they encounter no built in Luck tests (traps and spells mostly).

now we're playing a more typical linear adventure and actual tests for Luck are built in, they have suddenly got to a tight spot where Luck is concerned.

i've always considered it is "use each power once, spend a luck to use one power an additional time once per day only" so that's only one additional use of one power.

this gets slightly more complicated by the Talent Blessed which allows an additional use of one power a day (i think, either that or it's Holy, books not to hand now)

question is: can they use the same power with that and then the Luck point on the same power? thereby using the same Blessing 3 times, but the rest once each?

even if you could use each power an extra time for the Luck cost i would still think that reasonable. if only because not many Blessings are multiple times per day useful anyway.

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Re: Question about Priestly Magic

Post by SkinnyOrc » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:15 am

Eddie wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:01 pm
it would be a massive issue in my game, my group regularly use their Luck as essentially additional Armour points (by testing when taking a big hit and getting a 7 for their armour roll) but that's because i've been running a sandbox style game.
The rulebook says voluntary LUCK tests can be used to make the opponents damage roll a 1, rather than the PCs armour roll a 7. It seems like it'd work fine but I'd need to sit down and figure it out to know if the armour roll gives them more benefit.

I'm wondering why they're needing to do that so much in a wilderness game where there aren't as many encounters a day. They're getting back 8 STAM a day from food and rest, plus 2 from first aid per fight they take a hit in. The problem I usually have with wilderness adventures is making them tough enough!

Anyway, yeah if there's few opportunities to make them test their luck they'll use it in combat. Ideally that'll just be for the more dangerous hits (crits, suprise attacks, creatures that get extra damage and so on), but how often they can depends when they get them back. "At the end of the adventure" doesn't work very well for a large wilderness sandbox. Maybe it should be per adventure or per week, whichever comes first? But definitely per day is too often.
Eddie wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:01 pm
if they don't go to specific places they encounter no built in Luck tests (traps and spells mostly).
I like the B10 Night's Dark Terror model for wilderness sandboxes, where there are small dungeons scattered around the map. Some are just a single lair and some a bit bigger, but most with no more than several encounter areas. Dyson Logos' smaller maps are great for this, and I like the way they're caves, ruins, mines, tombs and so on, not just an unexplained room corridor grid.

In a wilderness you can use LUCK for hazards like ground that might give way, rock slides, avalanches and that sort of thing. Those sorts of natural traps can be found below ground too. Also a lot of creatures will try to ambush PCs and Surprise is dangerous in AFF2 (pg. 64). They can't be as on guard all the time when travelling, but LUCK can be used to see if the creature makes a noise or something looks wrong. They can then choose to take Awareness tests to figure out what's going on.
Eddie wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:01 pm
i've always considered it is "use each power once, spend a luck to use one power an additional time once per day only" so that's only one additional use of one power.
I did too. But what it says is "in dire circumstances a Priest may use one of his powers for a second time during a day". That doesn't stop them doing it again with another of their powers if there's some serious direness going on.
Eddie wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:01 pm
this gets slightly more complicated by the Talent Blessed which allows an additional use of one power a day (i think, either that or it's Holy, books not to hand now)

question is: can they use the same power with that and then the Luck point on the same power? thereby using the same Blessing 3 times, but the rest once each?
I say no, because the Blessed Talent description says "without extra cost" (the LUCK cost), it doesn't say anything about breaking the clearly stated "No power may be used a third time during one day" rule. Plus if you let it allow a third use every Priest PC takes it, which shows it's unbalanced against the other Talents.
Eddie wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:01 pm
even if you could use each power an extra time for the Luck cost i would still think that reasonable. if only because not many Blessings are multiple times per day useful anyway.
That's it. Adventuring priests are exceptional individuals taking unusual risks so I think it's justifiable in the game world, and I don't see it as unbalancing either. But the increasing LUCK costs I was suggesting above for multiple second power uses in a day would make sure they don't do it lightly.

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Re: Question about Priestly Magic

Post by Eddie » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:03 am

my sandbox had lots of mini adventures in place and they restored all Luck upon completion of any of them.

the issue i hadn't considered was running around the map finding said adventures but then deciding to continue exploring loads more without actually engaging in any of them.

between that and praying to the gods which i gave minor Luck points back on.

as for the wilderness fights: they keep running away from east combats but then going full on Rambo on very hard encounters.
6 goblins? no way
3 trolls armed with battle axes? charge!!

that's how they kept getting battered so badly.

i obviously misread the Luck rules on the damage/armour bit.

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Re: Question about Priestly Magic

Post by SkinnyOrc » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:04 pm

Eddie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:03 am
my sandbox had lots of mini adventures in place and they restored all Luck upon completion of any of them.
Right, that seems like it should be a fair way to do it and it's in the spirit of what it says in the rulebook. That wasn't written with a wilderness sandbox in mind so it's an interesting question how to handle LUCK in one.
Eddie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:03 am
the issue i hadn't considered was running around the map finding said adventures but then deciding to continue exploring loads more without actually engaging in any of them.
Yeah players, they like to surprise you. :)
Eddie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:03 am
as for the wilderness fights: they keep running away from east combats but then going full on Rambo on very hard encounters.
6 goblins? no way
3 trolls armed with battle axes? charge!!

that's how they kept getting battered so badly.
I've got some ideas which you can of course totally ignore. Have a word to them out of the game to say that completing mini-adventures is the best way to get LUCK back. It's fair they know that. Add that you may ask them to test their luck and it could be low when they really need it. Then make a point of finding things for them to test their luck against that have real consequences, like the ambush thing. Give them the idea that LUCK has to be rationed carefully and then let them run out if they over use it.

For the ambush LUCK test, and anywhere the whole party is being lucky or unlucky, I'd ask who has the highest current LUCK and get that PC to test. If more than one has highest equal then pick randomly between those. You could call that a Party LUCK Test.

For the fights, my opinion is it's okay to say "your character knows they'd be a dangerous opponent" or "they shouldn't be too much trouble", especially if they're not that familiar with the game system and it seems like something their characters would know. But also they should be finding one or more safe havens to rest up when they need to and the PCs would probably realise that too.

If two priest Heals a day, rest and eating, first aid, and being a bit more selective in what they fight isn't enough, then maybe it's time to consider if the numbers and strength of opponents is a bit much for the party?

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