Some Questions

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Re: Some Questions

Post by d6&d6 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:07 pm

parkusuk wrote:I think i might stop posting "tehnical" information for a bit! :oops:
In a sense, you now know there's AFF players who have high interest in your products! That keeps the project alive for you as much as for us :D

Just a follow-up with Mountain Peak 11, in my case, the players aren't running for talents now. With the xp I give them, they only go for special skills, cantrips and sometimes main attributes. So 200 xp is high enough for them to buy even with 50 xp per adventure. The game in itself is a little gritty so they need to get better in basic stuff.
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Re: Some Questions

Post by Kheldar » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:15 pm

Does anyone else receive notifications to threads they've posted in? I've checked all the settings but I'm not getting any

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Re: Some Questions

Post by bottg » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:47 pm

Kheldar wrote:Does anyone else receive notifications to threads they've posted in? I've checked all the settings but I'm not getting any
Let me check that. It could be that i forgot to enable something when i upgraded the phpbb version

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Re: Some Questions

Post by Kheldar » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:00 am

MountainPeak11 wrote: I've devised a more detailed xp system which makes it take a while to reach 200 xp. And even then it's not like all the players are going to scream "OMGOMGOMG I NEED A NEW TALENT". They're more than likely going to want to boost their stats or obtain another special skill point.
Can I ask why you did this? I'm asking because I'm not convinced about the game's longevity as far as character creation is concerned.

Skill 7 and you can start with a +2 in a special skill, that's only a 2 point rise until you max out. I know there are a lot of special skills and talents, but still. And that's not to mention if you raise SKILL you're going to max out sooner, because the maximum is reached across the board. It may take more experience points to do so, but the pay off massively overrides the waiting.

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Re: Some Questions

Post by bottg » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:37 am

What actually happens in play is that Heroes should get somewhere in the region of 50xp per adventure, regardless of their previous experience.

A warrior will probably start with SKILL 7 and 2 in Swords etc. To increase SKILL to 8 costs 160xp, so 3-4 adventures. Increasing swords to 3 costs 30. But buying bows at +1 only costs 20.

So to get SKILL from 7 to 12 (the maximum) will cost 1000xp, so 20 adventures. BUT although they will be good all round, they will not have increased their special skills at all, or bought any talents. And because talents let you do things that you otherwise couldn't do, they are also a good buy.

The warrior who has meanwhile put 2 more into SKILL and raised swords to 5 will have only spent 460xp and will be just as good in combat with that one weapon.

In addition, that Hero won't have improved his STAMINA either.

So in order for a Hero to be maxing out on SKILL, STAMINA and a couple of their major Special skills, plus buying a couple more talents, will be 50-60 adventures. Even then there will be other special skills and talents they can buy.

Added to which, if you are planning a really long campaign, just drop the xp to 35 or 40 per adventure.

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Re: Some Questions

Post by Kheldar » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:18 pm

parkusuk wrote:A warrior will probably start with SKILL 7 and 2 in Swords etc. To increase SKILL to 8 costs 160xp, so 3-4 adventures. Increasing swords to 3 costs 30. But buying bows at +1 only costs 20.
Which highlights my concern - after two adventures, that character could gain another +2 in Swords, thereby effectively maxing out. If you have a target number of 12 to aim for, only rolling a 12 will you fail. Granted he's got other special skills he can improve, but that's the same for everyone. And if everyone is increasing things at the same fast rate, then eventually, everyone is going to start impinging on everyone else's special skills. I probably didn't explain that very well, so I hope you understand what I am trying to convey
parkusuk wrote:Added to which, if you are planning a really long campaign, just drop the xp to 35 or 40 per adventure.
I'm not sure this is a fix I'd use, because by doing so, you're just slowing down the rate of character progress. Yes they won't max out too soon, but it will take that much longer for any real change to take place for the charactrer and his abilities

It may seem like I'm slating the game, I'm really not, that's not my intention. I just have huge reservations about character growth. I think this stems from its basic 'turn to page x' roots, whereby it was all created for one player and that player's character to have some simple fast fun. I don't think it translates very well into a full blown role playing game.

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Re: Some Questions

Post by bottg » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:24 pm

Kheldar wrote:
parkusuk wrote:A warrior will probably start with SKILL 7 and 2 in Swords etc. To increase SKILL to 8 costs 160xp, so 3-4 adventures. Increasing swords to 3 costs 30. But buying bows at +1 only costs 20.
Which highlights my concern - after two adventures, that character could gain another +2 in Swords, thereby effectively maxing out. If you have a target number of 12 to aim for, only rolling a 12 will you fail. Granted he's got other special skills he can improve, but that's the same for everyone. And if everyone is increasing things at the same fast rate, then eventually, everyone is going to start impinging on everyone else's special skills. I probably didn't explain that very well, so I hope you understand what I am trying to convey
Absolutely. My feeling is though that this is an issue of perception rather than how it plays out. Warriors do tend to increase their special skill in their primary weapon first, but after a few adventures they then have to start choosing to save up for SKILL or STAMINA, or branch out into other special skills. Or do they save up for talents?

And yes a SKILL 7, Swords 4 character is good in a fight, although still susceptible to outnumbering and more powerful enemies.
There are enough special skills, talents and magic systems so that overlap is quite rare except in very large parties.

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Re: Some Questions

Post by Kheldar » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:26 pm

Ok, I shall take your word for it

Thanks for your patience

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Re: Some Questions

Post by bottg » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:11 pm

Kheldar wrote:Ok, I shall take your word for it

Thanks for your patience

One thing i have found with AFF, talking to people at cons, on here and by email etc, is that the game is seen as ultra-lite and therefore best for one-shots etc. But usually by those that havn't yet played/run it.

What i find with people who have played it for a bit is that they find all of the little subtleties. AN example is magic. Wizards only know a few spells to start with, but they get magic points to power their spells. But it is difficult to replenish magic points mid-adventure.

Sorcerers meanwhile know all of their spells. But some need components. And they weaken themselves because they use STAMINA to cast. But you can replenish that with food etc. And they can wear armour. But if they are going to wear armour, they might as well fight. So they need a reasonable SKILL. But they also need good STAMINA to cast their spells. But if they cast a spell, it weakens them for a fight. And if they have higher STAMINA and SKILL, they have lower MAGIC. Which means that they have to spend longer casting spells. etc etc. And that was just one playtesters view of the sorcerer!

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Re: Some Questions

Post by Kheldar » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:29 pm

So there's a definite trade off between two or three variables, and finding the sweet spot is half the fun

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Re: Some Questions

Post by Slloyd14 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:37 pm

parkusuk wrote:
Sorcerers meanwhile know all of their spells. But some need components. And they weaken themselves because they use STAMINA to cast. But you can replenish that with food etc. And they can wear armour. But if they are going to wear armour, they might as well fight. So they need a reasonable SKILL. But they also need good STAMINA to cast their spells. But if they cast a spell, it weakens them for a fight. And if they have higher STAMINA and SKILL, they have lower MAGIC. Which means that they have to spend longer casting spells. etc etc. And that was just one playtesters view of the sorcerer!
I love the nuance in sorcerers brought on by using one stat for more than one thing. I guess they need to use their magic to supplement their other skills at a pinch, maybe by using the talent where they don't have to make a roll when the cost of the spell is lower than their magic score. Except all 1 stamina spells need components, so they will have to get 3 magic points which then involves sacrificing skill, stamina or luck. I think if I played a sorcerer, I would get 3 magic points, the above talent, then get a decent skill or stamina and use my spells sparingly.
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Re: Some Questions

Post by d6&d6 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:04 am

parkusuk wrote:What i find with people who have played it for a bit is that they find all of the little subtleties.
I second my voice on that. I play it and this statement is quite true!

In 27 years, I've played a wide range of games, from simple systems like D6 to complex like Rolemaster. AFF offers a lot through it's simplicity. I'm amazed on how you can have varied characters with so little. Without having written rules for every aspect of the game, these subleties comes by themselves. Maybe a beginning, young Gm won't see, feel or apply them, but if you've played a lot they will come and the game will go straight to the essential : common sense driven rpg.

That's my view. The good part gets out when you try it for real.
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Re: Some Questions

Post by Kheldar » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 am

Aside from fighting, how are opposed tests resolved?

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Re: Some Questions

Post by Nuvole! » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:24 am

Kheldar wrote:
parkusuk wrote:A warrior will probably start with SKILL 7 and 2 in Swords etc. To increase SKILL to 8 costs 160xp, so 3-4 adventures. Increasing swords to 3 costs 30. But buying bows at +1 only costs 20.
Which highlights my concern - after two adventures, that character could gain another +2 in Swords, thereby effectively maxing out.
If this is your concern you can always house rule that you need a master teacher to reach such high peaks of swordmanship and finding this teacher + convincing him to teach may be no minor achievement in itself (or maybe impossible to find for a while).
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Re: Some Questions

Post by d6&d6 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:42 am

Kheldar wrote:Aside from fighting, how are opposed tests resolved?
The same way. 2d6 + skill + special skill + circumstacial modifiers for both parties. Highest wins!
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