Bargain and Con, and what table

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darksoul
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Bargain and Con, and what table

Post by darksoul » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:39 pm

I'm finishing up my second AFF story for my group and I'm making sure that the players have use for their skills but I'm unclear about the difference between Bargain and Con.

Bargain skill description says that it covers negotiation, persuasion, buying and selling goods, but you can also bribe someone with it.
Con is used to convince others possibly by bribery or deceit.
When I get to chapter 2 there are two sections for how to handle these skills. Trading; Bribery and Conning.
From what I can tell, trading is only accomplished using the Bargain skill. The skill is mentioned specifically in that section as well. Bribery and Conning on the other hand can use either the Conning skill or the bargain skill. Is that right?

I'm going to list social actions possible with these skills.

Action
Trick someone - Con skill and use bribery and conningtable
Negotiate a deal or get best price- Bargain and use trading table
Convince someone to do something with a bribe- Con or Bargain and use Bribery and conning table.
Persuade someone of a different opinion in a debate- Bargain if it's legit, Con if your using tricky wording or manipulation(I would argue that a player can use their language skill here, too) Use Bribery and conning table.
Teach someone a moral lesson or convince them that a certain action is good/bad by telling a story, parable, wise saying or lesson- Con??? Bargain??? Religon lore??? Language???


It seems that the skills can be progressive and take various steps.
Convince someone to give you information with no bribe or manipultation- Bargain and use Bribery and conning table.
Convince someone to give you information with incentive- Bargain and use Bribery and conning table. Can Con be used here??
Convince someone to give you information through manipulation- Con and use Bribery and conning table.
Convince someone to give you information by threatening them- Con if you don't mean it or Bargain if you doand use Bribery and conning table.

Does that sound about right?

Mr Nibbs
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Re: Bargain and Con, and what table

Post by Mr Nibbs » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:17 pm

My guess is that to bargain well, one needs to know the perceived value of something. A con man, aka confidence trickster, will try to persuade you that something is worth more than it actually is, or ask you to do something not in your interest. I think the basic difference between bargains and cons is that one is a legitimate way to do business and the other is not.

The easy fix is to get your players to write their own house rules :D

darksoul
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Re: Bargain and Con, and what table

Post by darksoul » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:43 am

Mr Nibbs wrote:My guess is that to bargain well, one needs to know the perceived value of something. A con man, aka confidence trickster, will try to persuade you that something is worth more than it actually is, or ask you to do something not in your interest. I think the basic difference between bargains and cons is that one is a legitimate way to do business and the other is not.

The easy fix is to get your players to write their own house rules :D
I agree with con usually being about deception. It seems bargain and con can both use the bribery table and as your post notes, perhaps a character with a bargain score can use the con skill to cheat someone at a bargain but if you don't have the bargain skill then you can't know the value of items well enough to con.

In one of the previous threads, someone asked about the point of having 4 pts or more in a language.
I'm thinking I'll allow players to use their language skill as a form of persuading, such as in a debate.
I'm suggesting that characters with 4 or higher language skill know about logical fallacies.

Mr Nibbs
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Re: Bargain and Con, and what table

Post by Mr Nibbs » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:38 pm

darksoul wrote:In one of the previous threads, someone asked about the point of having 4 pts or more in a language. I'm thinking I'll allow players to use their language skill as a form of persuading, such as in a debate.
I'm suggesting that characters with 4 or higher language skill know about logical fallacies.
Logic argument is not so effective against someone who doesn't trust it, or is a fanatic. Higher language skills could also include formal and regional variants, imitating accents and partially understanding related languages. These could be useful for "persuasion by personality" or translating texts.

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