AFF Manuevers?

[Shevek]

I haven't played AFF yet (I just got the rules in that epic bundle!) but I like alot of what I am reading so far. I'm curious what kind of house rules people have for combat maneuvers and the like. One thing I really liked about DCC was the Warrior's Mighty Deeds. They would let a Warrior attempt something cool he just dreamed up in the moment while still being able to attack and lay on some damage.

I am a total AFF neophyte but I derped around some and came up with some draft rules. Any feedback would be awesome. (Mucked about with it some more)

Pasted below:

These rules allow characters to execute basic combat Deeds related to a particular skill as they attack. The steps are listed below:
1. Declare the attempted Deed to correspond with an attack on a target (ex., a Shove while attacking or charging)
2. Roll 2d6 for the attack; resolve the hit. If it misses, stop here.
3. If it’s a hit, determine if the Deed succeeds using the d6 rolled for the damage. If the value on the die is equal or less than the appropriate Special Skill (such as Strength for Shove) the Deed succeeds.
4. Resolve the effect of the Deed if it succeeded (ex., a Shoved creature is moved back 1 meter or 2 meters on a Charge) and the damage for the original attack.
Please note, some Deeds may not work against larger opponents.

Deeds should fit the situation and reflect might and daring. HERE are some examples. A PC must have a point in the associated Special Skill to attempt the Deed.

Deeds have “Standard” and “Amazing” Results. For a Deed to be eligible to be “Amazing,” players must have 4 points in a Special Skill (be a "Master") and must roll exactly 4 on the damage die. Players are encouraged to think up Deeds in the moment that follow the examples given in the link above.

The NPC target number for Deeds is 1/3 their Skill Score rounded down.

[Lorian]

Me and ruffnut are working on a new combat system.

[Andy Bartlett]

Make it a three way face off then! (How to handle a three-way fight in AFF? That's a different thread.)

My own gestating system takes inspiration from the MRQ2, RQ5/Mythras combat manoeuvres. It's very rough as it stands, If works on margin of difference in Attack Strengths - a sufficient difference allows the winner to impose a Special Effect (as per RQ5/Mythras), with (perhaps?) two margins- Special and Critical, to borrow BRP terminology.

Most of these will not cause extra damage etc., but will be manoeuvres which disadvantage the loser - the goal being to present a range situations in which defeat does not necessarily equal death.

[Shevek]

I kinda want the Deeds to use other special skills in some way, so I avoided a system where if you beat the result by x then y happens (since it would just use the original values). Mucked about with it some more. The math works I think. I'll just have to try it out.

[Andy Bartlett]

I kinda want the Deeds to use other special skills in some way

That's interesting. I've been thinking about Fate's 'Create Advantage' action, which allows characters to use any applicable skill to create an advantage in a conflict, including combat. These Advantages can then be used by that character, or her allies. I wonder if this sort of system could be used in AFF.

(Not trying to divert you from adopting the DCC Mighty Deeds system - AFF is so adaptable and robust, and I am keen to see what you come up with.)

[Shevek]

Ya, thats pretty much what I am going for. I want to avoid the "I hit it with my axe" approach. Instead, players are looking to their skills, seeing what could apply to a situation and then a snap ruling is made based on the result.

[Dupont]

I wonder if theres room for having an attempted shove etc backfire? It might be adding too much detail to the mix but it just seems like its possible to have a player take a chance. Perhaps just an extra column with a failed attempt result, or a standardised negative modifier for the PC next round on failed attempts.

I'm interested to see how this plays. I think I will have a player find a book on Advanced Combat Philosophy with one technique in it and see what that sparks off. Especially if the Crouching Tiger Style assassin/owner of the book uses the Maneuver on them too first.

Do your players declare this sort of action en masse at the beginning of a round? I run it pretty loosely at the moment, moving from one player to the next during a round as the rounds are so quick and enjoy that. If they're only using 1 already rolled D6 result+Special Skill though, do your players 'eyeball' the MONSTER's roll and know ahead of their chance to act in a round whether they're likely to succeed at all?

[Shevek]

I would avoid backfires since I want to encourage them to try stuff. The issue with how some systems implement manuevers is that players often prefer to just do damage since it kills the target faster. This allows them to do both at the same time.

Like I said, I haven't played AFF yet but in other games I have them describe what they are doing and then roll. I would avoid limiting them to a technique. Let them make stuff up on the spot.

Player 1: Hey, can I Spear this guy and swing his impaled body over the ledge
Director: Ya, roll to hit then check for Strength if you hit.
Player 2: Hey, I want to prevent that dragon from breathing on us by stabbing him in the neck or something. Can I?
Director: Sorry, he's too big. But you can roll to hit and check Climb. Then you can hop on him and try something like that next round. Even then, though, it will take some luck to pull that off.

Etc etc. They are doing all this as they are swinging their swords. So, even if the Deed fails, they still do damage.

Of course, this means enemies can do cool stuff too.

Edit: I edited the resolution mechanic to be a bit more fluid in play. So, the damage die ends up acting like a Deed die in DCC but it's still tied to a Special Skill.

[Dupont]

Like I said, I haven't played AFF yet but in other games I have them describe what they are doing and then roll. I would avoid limiting them to a technique. Let them make stuff up on the spot.

I was thinking of flavour and setting really, presenting it to them in game through an NPC who does it to them and handily has a book about it and seeing what it sparks in them rather than limiting it. It could be limited of course, some GMs I'm sure would want to, I dunno a skill that each level allows a couple of tactics. You might lose player imagination/improvisation there, but there are probably ways round that to a degree. It would also give GMs another way of getting players spending Exp. Whats really interesting is if players come up with ways of dealing with greater numbers like this. Or GM's think of ways that might help some of those Large Monsters survive alone against the party a little longer sometimes.

Having a reason like this to adventure doesn't have to mean limiting what they can come up with and use themselves, it could be nothing more than them hearing something like 'Hey theres a guy/Ruined Gladiator School/Temple Scroll that knows a technique you haven't thought of yourselves,' ( Perhaps he was expert at confusing cattle by jumping over them and used it on Goblins or something - they will have to go find out). Having a clue like that in the back of a book would get my party hungry to think of stuff and find anyone else that already had. A Fighter could get their party into all sorts of messes with that kind of GM held carrot on a stick! I reckon my lot just might follow that actually lol.

Maybe they hold competitions and even sell coloured belts in the towns along the river Kok as a sign of achievement..

I'm interested to see how it meshes with the opposed rolling and statement of intent. My ramblings aside it will be good to see where you take this.

Edit - Ah I see you changed the D6 to the Damage roll. Thats interesting as it's hoping for reduced damage to be successful in the feat

[Dupont]

Make it a three way face off then! (How to handle a three-way fight in AFF? That's a different thread.)

This gives me a headache lol

[Shevek]

Dupont:
I cleaned up the opposed rolling resolution mechanic and made it closer to DCC's Deed die. Basically, when rolling for damage, the player tries to roll under the number of points invested in the related Special Skill using the damage die. The percentages work, it rewards special skill investment and it should be fast.

[Dupont]

Dupont:
I cleaned up the opposed rolling resolution mechanic and made it closer to DCC's Deed die. Basically, when rolling for damage, the player tries to roll under the number of points invested in the related Special Skill using the damage die. The percentages work, it rewards special skill investment and it should be fast.

Yeah it sounds fun