Fly and Levitate

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SkinnyOrc
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Fly and Levitate

Post by SkinnyOrc » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:31 am

Slloyd14 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:41 am
SkinnyOrc wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:38 pm
Something else I'd add to the list of low fantasy game-breakers is magical flying. The AFF2 mechanics and wide selection of special skills are well suited to low fantasy and investigation adventures, it just needs a few tweaks to the spells.
I agree about magical flying. It can nerf tons of traps and situations in an instant. Which is why in my own system, the best you can get is enhanced jumping.

Even Levitate has a negative effect on the game in that it can make other PC's climbing skills a bit redundant. What I suggest is the Fly spell is removed and Levitate becomes a 4 MP spell. I'd be okay for it to be removed too, but I'm thinking of the situation where the entire party has to get up a cliff. It's probably better to allow Levitate in some form than have specialist wizards needing to learn climbing.

Then add a 2 MP Leap spell, and a Feather Fall spell that's maybe only 1 MP. I think Leap shouldn't allow the recipient to automatically control the jump or nail the landing, so making it a touch range spell would allow it to be cast on someone else who's more dexterous. For Feather Fall, with the AFF casting roll it's good drama using it under pressure on someone else in mid-air, so I'd give that one a range. You should get a bigger penalty casting it on yourself in mid-air though!

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Re: Fly and Levitate

Post by Nuvole! » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:57 am

Flying ultimately "breaks" the Sorcery! campaign... and also Citadel of Chaos.... not a good fit for Fighting Fantasy legacy...
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Re: Fly and Levitate

Post by SkinnyOrc » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:34 am

Yeah exactly, and anything else with cliffs or walls.

Thinking about it more I'd ditch Levitate too and add a 2 MP Climb spell that would allow the specialist wizard to keep up with the rest of the party on fairly easy climbs. But what you don't want is there's that sort of obstacle which you need one person to get up, and the party turns to the wizard rather than the skilled climber.

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Re: Fly and Levitate

Post by Slloyd14 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:37 am

SkinnyOrc wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:34 am
Yeah exactly, and anything else with cliffs or walls.

Thinking about it more I'd ditch Levitate too and add a 2 MP Climb spell that would allow the specialist wizard to keep up with the rest of the party on fairly easy climbs. But what you don't want is there's that sort of obstacle which you need one person to get up, and the party turns to the wizard rather than the skilled climber.
Wizards becoming better than non spellcasters is always a danger. My view if spellcasters is that their magic should give them more options but only a limited number of uses which produces tension, so they have to decide if casting a fire bolt is worth I now or saving it for later is more valuable.

Another way of preventing wizards from becoming human Swiss army knives is to make spells that don't give automatic success or last a randomly determined amount of time. This way, non spellcasters are more reliable.

Maybe there could be a spell that gives a bonus to climb and jump rolls such as +2 so that a wizard is, at best, just as good as an expert climber. And then a random duration to spice things up, so the spell could wear off half way up a cliff. Maybe enough time for 1d6 climb rolls and the wizard could spend more magic points to roll and extra 1d6.

Dungeon Crawl Classics has an awesome spell system where each spell goes from critical failure to spectacular success depending on how high you roll (for example, the open door spell blows up every door and window for miles around if you roll high enough). That magic is both awesome but will also make you want a reliable non spellcaster most of the time.
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Re: Fly and Levitate

Post by Chompy » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:46 pm

Someone mentioned a climb spell... I had a magical item in an adventure that lets you walk on any solid surface at any angle - cliffs, ceilings, etc. Though you had to always have contact with the surface, or you'd fall, so running wasn't really possible. Might work as a good 'climbing' spell? Also has good use for keeping your balance or maybe even some demanding feats like walking across a narrow beam or not getting swept off a ship's deck in a storm.

Now that I think of it, that's more swiss army knife wizardry. :p
Maybe some downsides could be having to keep concentrating the whole time lest the spell be broken, or requiring skin contact (so barefoot), or the chance that a surface might just break away under your weight since you're not picking good handholds... or just the higher spell cost and casting time might make it a less preferable choice to having someone good at climbing just scoot up there.

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Re: Fly and Levitate

Post by Eddie » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:13 pm

holy thread necromancy bat man!!

on topic though: the easiest way to do this would be to make the spell allow using the Magic stat in place of Skill.

this way the spell itself merely makes the caster as competent as a Skilled character and grant no actual skill points in climb.

a similar approach would be useful and not break the way the game works in my opinion

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Re: Fly and Levitate

Post by SkinnyOrc » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:18 pm

Eddie wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:13 pm
on topic though: the easiest way to do this would be to make the spell allow using the Magic stat in place of Skill.

this way the spell itself merely makes the caster as competent as a Skilled character and grant no actual skill points in climb
Yep that'd work well. I'd want them to not be the best climber in the party with the spell cast, and if they just get to use their Magic stat in place of Skill, with no special skill bonus, that should be the end result.

I like to work backwards from the effects I want in the game. So I imagine the party want to climb a cliff to get into a ruined city in the crater of an extinct volcano, as with Dwellers of the Forbidden City. It's easy enough for skilled climbers, doable but risky for the inexperienced, dangerous for the unathletic. But they all need to get in so they rope together with the best climber taking the lead. The specialist wizard has the lowest Skill and is likely to slip, but he casts Climb, allowing him to make the climbing tests against his Magic stat. They can now make good progress, at least until they get attacked...

Later on there's an idol they need at the top of a tall marble pillar. They turn to the skilled climber to attempt it, the wizard doesn't have any magic that will get him up something of that difficulty.

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